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The new Gestapo

http://xrl.us/dx88 (link to Newsday.com)

WASHINGTON -- The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers believed to have been disloyal to President George W. Bush or of leaking damaging information to the media about the conduct of the Iraq war and the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to knowledgeable sources.

"The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to both the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda."

If you don't like the intelligence you get, keep firing people until you get the intelligence you want.

Some "uniter" this bozo is...

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( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
saratoga80
Nov. 17th, 2004 06:18 pm (UTC)
Porter Godd
Packy,

The biggest problem is that these "knowledgeable sources" and former CIA operatives may just simply dislike Bush. They probably have their own biases. In any political shakeup, people leave with bad feelings and disagreements. People don't like the new party, etc etc. You think some people at the pentagon and the cia weren't all pissed off b/c an untried Junior with a penchant for pretty girls and a call for gays in the military (then, it was unthinkable) had come to power over a military vet, world war 2 hero and former head of the CIA? There were resignations then, too. With the same vitriol. And the same dire warnings of a weak and divided CIA. Turns out that the American military and CIA were just fine. While they have had their mistakes, both then and now, they are 2 of the most successful organizations of their type. Why? Because the people that are in them who are not political appointees - on the order of 80% or so - know exactly what they are doing. Packy, you keep looking for reasons to hate Mr. Bush. I suggest that you can always find what you are looking for, especially if you are looking for nothing else...
packy
Nov. 17th, 2004 06:46 pm (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
People resigned, but there wasn't an ideological PURGE. This administration is unprecedented in it's desire to not even HEAR opinions contrary to it's own preconceived notions. Clinton pissed people off, and plenty left, but a non-partisan agency wasn't told to rid itself of conservatives who didn't agree with him. Bush is intent to mold the entire federal government to his own ideals, so they'll rubber stamp any actions he wants to take.

Always finding what you're looking for is a two way street--Bush's boosters never find anything amiss about his actions. And, much to the detriment of the nation, it's becoming viewed as unpatriotic, even UN-AMERICAN, to question the president.

That's why I'm glad I'm getting out while the getting is good. I'm sure I can find someplace where thinking Bush is a dangerous imperialistic ideologue is the commonly held opinion...
sharpsight
Nov. 18th, 2004 09:19 am (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
*after seeing Tokyo in person, reccomends Japan to all such*

(...trains that you could set a clock by, both chikatetsu and eki... buildings from horizon to horizon, in even direction... like London, but clean! No grubbiness! Handles, banisters, railings that you could grasp and take away a hand not covered in filth... *still in awe*)
saratoga80
Nov. 18th, 2004 07:24 pm (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
Packy,

There is no such thing as an ideological purge in a government where 85% of the employees remain, regardless of your statements to the contrary. And, if you want to look at it, there was a change at several top positions in the CIA in 1992. There was no outcry because there wasn't a problem. Top people leave, people whine and the world goes about its business as it has for years, despite gloom n doomers.

I have criticized the President on gay marriage, the Clear Skies initiatives and a few other items. I did so on GOP lists. And yeah, I took shrapnel. What yu are of course missing is that the left created big government in the 1970s .. you just don't like being on the other end now that you're in the minority, huh?

As to leaving, fine, leave. In addition to missing a good friend, you will deprive the nation of another good citizen. And you will find no place in the world where everyone thinks like you. There is no worldview of anyone - we are all different. In fact, in leaving, you are essentially admitting defeat, rather than fighting for your beliefs. People have faced a lot longer odds than you to create change in this country, and yet they stayed here. If your dissatisfied, vote, organize political action, connect with the peole that can be persuaded. Don't just carp and leave. You owe it to the country you have the freedom to cast a ballot in to find a better man, such as you can, to vote for in 2 and 4 years. You didn't see me pack up and move when Clinton was elected?

-- Rich

packy
Nov. 18th, 2004 08:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
You right wingers keep talking as if the Clinton years were some kind of liberal spending spree, like a teenager left with her parents' credit cards. The big government of the 1970s was not a creation of the four years of Carter's presidency--it's a legacy of the Roosevelt years and the New Deal. Plus, might I remind you that the 1970s were followed by 12 years of Republican rule: a time where decisions were made that I didn't agree with, but I didn't feel like the country was part of a dangerous swing towards intolarance and unilateralism. Nor were the Clinton years much different--in fact, it was during this time that the country was able to balance the budget and get rid of the deficit that had been hounding us since Reagan.

But now... now Bush is spending money like there's no tomorrrow. Of course, there IS a tomorrow: that's where he's getting the money, by borrowing the government up to it's eyeballs while at the same time cutting taxes for the well-heeled left and right. He's spending money like it's water, but not on programs to help americans, but on vanity wars and contracts to rebuild those countries given exclusively to his political cronies.

And he's got a political advisor who's hit on the magic formula for winning elections: claim the moral high ground, even when you don't have a moral foot to stand on. Bush won't be satisfied until he's bankrupted the government and made it impossible for the federal governemnt to do anything besides collect taxes on the poor and middle class, provide for the millitary (which we'll need because the rest of the world will hate and fear us) and service the national debt. All the money that should be going toward things like Social Security and Medicare will be paying the bill for his folly now.

And I don't intend to stick around and watch this happen. I've had enough of watching things I love fall apart because people are too stupid to realize they're being duped, and I'm tired of being treated like a pariah because I call attention to these things. There is no place where EVERYONE will be like me, but I'd like to at least find a place where the people treating me like I'm a lunatic are in the minority. There are plenty of places like that--all I have to do ie leave the country and I'll be surrounded by them.

It's time I stopped worrying about my fellow man and stated worrying about MYSELF. I need to do what's best for ME, and it's plain that staying here is NOT what's best for me.
saratoga80
Nov. 27th, 2004 10:40 am (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
Reality #1: We've had a budget deficit from 1969 - 1996. We've also had one from 2001 - present.
Reality #2: The balanced budget was passed in 1996 despite larger democratic opposition from 1994-1996.
Reality #3: Our debt-to-GDP ratio is well within historical norms. In the 1970s, it was at its highest.
Reality #4: The balanced budget was passed by a Republican congress and a democratic president.
Reality #5: Since 3Q 2001, Real GDP has increased.
Reality #6: Spending has increased an average of 3.9% over the past 4 years. The problem was a decline in real GDP from 1Q ro 3Q 2001 and shrinking tax base, which has balloned the budget. This regular increase in spending represents average growth...
Reality #7: Debt services has remained our largest expenditure through many administrations. Social Security and Medicare are funded via payroll taxes and are separate from teh budget due to their separate collections. You would have to increase payroll taxes to fund those programs more.
Reality #8: Both sides caimed the moral high ground: is this any different from most politicking?
Reality #9: In rebuilding Eastern Europe, Hallibrton was given contracts following the Balkan bombings by Clinton. They do it because they are good at it. The fact that one sbsidiary gets nailed for overcharging after being by and large good citizens for 30 years is a little overreactive.


George Will recently wrote how the left has increasingly become condescending of the American right, that somehow we're all idiots who just hate gays and like guns. Somehow, we just didn't think as much as they did, and we're just not as smart. Your whole tone is exactly why the left has not won a presidential election of any kind since 1976. You talk about the stuff you love, but your tone is filled with an anger that most Americans would tend to reject. Yor commitment to leaving is another - liberals, moderates, conservatives, and others tend to stay here to improve this place. By the way, before labelling me far right, I generally test to the middle of the scale politically.

Oh, and Packy, could I be added to your friends list, please?

-- Rich Quodomine
packy
Nov. 27th, 2004 11:29 am (UTC)
Reality #1: We've had a budget deficit from 1969 - 1996. We've also had one from 2001 - present.
Yes, but this doesn't change the fact that we went from having a very comfortable surplus to having a record high deficit.

Reality #6: Spending has increased an average of 3.9% over the past 4 years. The problem was a decline in real GDP from 1Q ro 3Q 2001 and shrinking tax base, which has balloned the budget. This regular increase in spending represents average growth...
And who's fault is the declining tax base? How can a president increase spending and radically slash taxes for the wealthiest americans at the same time?

Reality #7: Debt services has remained our largest expenditure through many administrations. Social Security and Medicare are funded via payroll taxes and are separate from teh budget due to their separate collections. You would have to increase payroll taxes to fund those programs more.
These programs are supposedly funded via the separate payroll taxes that are collected with the express purpose of funding them. However, and this will surprise you to hear coming out of my mouth, both republican and democratic lawmakers have been raiding these taxes ever since they were raised above the limits needed to service the current Social Security obligations in the Reagan administration, ostensibly to start building a surplus for Social Security for when the Boomer generation retires. That's what Gore's "Lock Box" crap was all about, but of course everybody laughed at him for wanting to SET ASIDE Social Security taxes and use them ONLY to service Social Security, like they were originally supposed to be used.

Reality #9: In rebuilding Eastern Europe, Hallibrton was given contracts following the Balkan bombings by Clinton. They do it because they are good at it. The fact that one subsidiary gets nailed for overcharging after being by and large good citizens for 30 years is a little overreactive.
But were those contracts awarded without a bidding process? There's nothing wrong with Halliburton being given government contracts--IF they're the best company for the job. It wasn't even ASKED if they were the best company for the job: the contract was written up in such a way that only THEY could do it, and then that was used as justification for handing it to them without even asking if there were other possibilities. That's not how government works, and I know that because I spent ELEVEN YEARS serving our government as a civil servant.

The left has become increasingly condescending of the American Right because the American Right has become increasingly condescending of the American Left. Witness the tone used when labeling someone "a liberal". Since when did "liberal" become a dirty word? It's a sad time when politicians have to run away from being for liberties and equality. And, increasingly, the American Right has become increasingly defined by guns, abortion, gays, prayer in school, "Intelligent Design" in textbooks and other "christian values". The people who side with them don't buy into their whole agenda, but they side with them because they feel so strongly about one of the wedge issues that the Right has picked up in it's drive for power that they're willing to sacrifice sane governance to protect their pet wedge issue. Personally, I'm pro-life, and I agree with the president on issues like partial-birth abortion and stem cell research, but I also recognize that the President does not share my regard for life, as witnessed by his record of executions as Governor of Texas. I am not willing to allow my belief that the unborn deserve protection to wedge me into supporting a man who doesn't believe in protecting the rights of those who are already born.
packy
Nov. 27th, 2004 11:30 am (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
There was a time when I tested toward the middle of the scale. Then they moved the scale.

If I am angry, it is because I am watching my beloved country drift further and further right and not being able to do one damn thing about it. I have given my all over the past four years, and the country has drifted even FURTHER right. I am through watching organizations I love destroy themselves from the inside because they decide to elect leaders who lie to them and are only looking to serve themselves and their political cronies--people who talk the talk of leadership and service, but don't walk the walk. I'm through with putting myself through all that stress. I'm leaving because I'm doing what's right for ME for a change, not what's right for everyone else. I obviously don't share the values of everybody else in these organizations, so I'm removing myself from the equations. I'm hoping that some distance will allow me to not spend as many nights crying over their demise as I have been.

Oh, and Packy, could I be added to your friends list, please?
I'll put this in as simple and plain terms as possible: NO.
saratoga80
Nov. 28th, 2004 07:26 am (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
Packy,

Go the route you choose. Enjoy Japan. Do what it is you need to. Should you choose to return or come back into contact, I will keep both doors and mind open. Wherever you go, be at peace.

-- Rich

PS Since I've obviously hurt your feelings somehow, if unintentionally, I'll not carry this debate further. You and I, I get the sense, could go on for years and agree on many things, disagree on others. I apologize for hurting your feelings. Fare well.
packy
Nov. 18th, 2004 08:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Porter Godd
Nor were the Clinton years much different--in fact, it was during this time that the country was able to balance the budget and get rid of the deficit that had been hounding us since Reagan.

Thanks mostly, I might add, to REPUBLICAN lawmakers who, while they were socially conservative, were also FISCALLY conservative. Bush is the worst of both worlds: he's a no-tax and spend, Spend, SPEND social conservative.

I'm not afraid of conservatives, or of Republicans. I'm afraid of what Bush has done to this country, and I'm positive that it cannot be undone until it's become plain to everyone that they've been duped. Unfortunately, that won't happen until we've been completely raped and Bush and his buddies have cut and run to greener pastures.
cyberjunkie
Nov. 28th, 2004 05:07 pm (UTC)
we need to talk. you on lily at all lately?
packy
Nov. 29th, 2004 03:39 am (UTC)
Only at work.
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )